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Topic
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Spectator judging or Concours judging, and why?
This topic should stir up some lively discussion, as each has its advantages and disadvantages.
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Replies
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Actually both are fine with me although I do feel spectator judging can be quite unfair at times if you go with a large group and they all vote for one or two cars. I’ve also been at shows where you put your entries into a big box and that has backfired also due to some “stuffing the ballot box” resulting in a car winning that shouldn’t.
I like to know what I’m being judged on and I’d like to see some of the judging sheets from the bigger shows around WI to know what I’ve been marked down on. (I’ve asked at a couple shows and have been told I can’t get the sheets, which I think is wrong). Concours judging should be fair and square for everyone but you will always get judges who prefer Ford vs. Chevrolet, etc. and no matter how good your car scores they can still mark it down.
I like it when judges look over the entire car not just the top, does that make sense? My car is complete from top to bottom and I’ve been at shows where judges have been told not to look underneath cars and/or consider wheels. If I’m being judged, I want the whole car, not just bits and pieces.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I think spectator judging can be interesting especially if you go to a show where your car isn’t well known. Of course many times the locals win those awards. With participant judging a large club being present can skew the results. I think they are very few if any shows where the Concours judges aren’t biased one way or the other. I think it is difficult for them to look over the entire car, especially underneath since they can’t put them on a lift.
I hate judging altogether, concours or spectator. Too often it is biased. I would prefer not to be judged. I have won trophies on cars I have built in the past and now they just gather dust. While it is nice to be recognized for doing something well, I would rather enjoy driving the finished product.
I never meant the cars need to be on a lift, I meant I appreciate when the judges actually get down and look at the cars from all angles. Too often I’ve seen cars win awards that have rust or something else on the quarters, fenders or rusty bumpers. There are special classes for cars like that!
Jon ~ I know what you mean, we have plenty of awards and it’s nice to be recognized for the hard work Steve does, but come October what do you do with them??
I like to know what I’m being judged on and I’d like to see some of the judging sheets from the bigger shows around WI to know what I’ve been marked down on. (I’ve asked at a couple shows and have been told I can’t get the sheets, which I think is wrong). Concours judging should be fair and square for everyone but you will always get judges who prefer Ford vs. Chevrolet, etc. and no matter how good your car scores they can still mark it down.
I think judging should be done only to help improve the car, not be a beauty show at best or a “fixed” show at worst. I’m with Jon. I’d rather drive it than show it. I’ve won some trophys in the past and they are in the basement collecting dust. If you can’t get the results to show you what needs improvement, judging is useless. The only judge I will pay attention to is at a national club meet where he is an expert on my car and isn’t guessing about how things are supposed to be.
If you really think about it ~ judging of any kind is a beauty show. I don’t aim to win best of anything and never will, you have no idea how many miles I put on my car in one year.
I’ve also been to national meets and it’s no different there, they have their favorites. You are judged when you enter the event, no matter what you think.
We’ve touched on one of the points that I wanted to make. That has to do with “unavoidable and natural bias”. For example, at a street rod show being hosted by a street rod club, street rods and modified factory stock cars will always do better. It’s natural for a judge who is into street rods to favor street rods, all other things being equal.
I will also chime in on another point. I would love to see the judging sheet on my car at the end of every “concours” judged show. The judging sheet would allow me to think about and correct those items that the concours judge/judges didn’t like. This is my third year of showing my car and I have never been able to get or see any judging sheet. Actually, at the end of a “concours” judged show, what do they do with the judging sheets?
I have yet to take the fastback to a National or Regional Mustang show, although I was thinking about competing in a National Show in Springfield, IL earlier this year, but I have heard that this type of show differs greatly from a local show. I have heard that competitors parked alongside one another will not or do not interact on any level because of the level of competition. I don’t think I would like the intensity or competitiveness of a big regional or national show. I like to compete at a couple of All Ford and/or Mustang show in the Milwaukee area, earlier in the year to get me accustomed getting my car ready each weekend, regardless of the type of judging.
Quote:I have heard that competitors parked alongside one another will not or do not interact on any level because of the level of competition.That just doesn’t sound fun to me. I build my cars because I enjoy them. I go to shows for two reasons. One because I enjoy all cars and enjoy seeing what others have done. Two, and more importantly, I enjoy the interaction. I enjoy meeting others that share my love of cars. Without that there is no thrill of being at the show. I am not one of those people that enjoy getting to the show, polishing for an hour, and then sitting behind my car waiting for someone to give me praise. I prefer to go, quickly wipe the dust, walk around and check out others, then sit and talk to friends.
Marshall ~ I took my Chevelle to a huge national event last year and it was not anything like you describe. For the most part everyone was very friendly and it was easy to make new friends. To be honest, I hated to see the weekend end as we had so much fun.
The comment I made regarding the winners picked when you entered the event comes from this event and also the Beloit car show. Most bigger shows like this know 99.9% of the time what is entered and what they want to see win. Sometimes you get surprised like we did earlier this year at World of Wheels in Milwaukee, but most times it’s the cars that travel the countryside to many events and are well known are the ones that are chosen.
We have gotten to know so many people and made many friends through these little things we call cars. Just think, there’s a good chance none of us would even know each other if it weren’t for the cars. I love going to shows and seeing what everyone else appreciates. Sometimes I shake my head and wonder what they heck they were thinking, but most often I’m pleased to see the hobby alive and well. I agree with you on the judging sheets also!
Jon ~ I like your thinking!
It seems the people who judge the shows guard those judging sheets with their lives. The best part of the hobby is driving the cars and meeting the people.
How did I miss this topic?
I was just in a conversation with someone the other day about judging. Everyone makes valid points. I would have to say that if I had my choice, I would prefer to be judged by a panel than the particpants/spectators. I also highly agree with Jon, before I used to clean, and clean, and clean some more because I wanted to be the best, I’m also very competitive when it comes to playing sports. BTW I still clean excessively but that’s my nature with all my vehicles. But nowadays I see that winning that $10 piece of plastic isn’t the real trophy, the real trophy is your car! That’s something you can appreciate every day and will always make you feel good.
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