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There has been a lot of discussion about the flaws and biases of participant judging. However, some shows may see this as the only viable avenue for judging at their show. Are there some rules or methods that they can use to ensure that the ballots don’t get stuffed? Is there a way to make participant judging more “fair”?
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Great question. Ideally members of a club attending could not vote for another club member’s car. It would be very difficult to police.
Have better cars show up then the locals have.
Worked in Mazo :laugh:
Seriously. The car count has to be enough that there are plenty of out of town cars worthy of voting for or it will become a popularity contest. That means the show has to try and advertise in advance and have a show that will attract cars from out of the area.
Two sets of voting possibly. Participant voting and then Public voting with different classes hand for them.
Nope, the better car will never win most of the time. Its based on peoples likings. Not points. Participant judging will never be fair.
The best way I’ve seen dealing with this is handing out random ballots that have only a couple of the classes. You never get one with your own class and the varying classes kind of eliminate the vote politicing and ballot stuffing. If you are in a class identified by the letter “D”, you then get a ballot with two or three other classes, but never “D”. You would never get a ballot with all classes listed. I’ve been to shows under this system and I think it works.
Didn’t Spring Green do the cross voting idea?
and hemi, I agree, participant never does work properly. We just dodged a bullet this year thankfully. I really hope they just hire a set of out of town judges for next year.
For the most part, I am pleased with the method that the GTO club has used for years. They “invite/bring” a judge from another club and another part of the state, who judges all the cars. Granted, this judge doesn’t have 20 minutes to look at each car, but he/she judges uniformly and consistently. For me, thats about as good as it gets at a judged show.
The participant judging style that lordairguitar posted about seems to work also (cross voting). When a participant is judging only a few of many classes, the participant may not know anyone or have friends in those classes that he/she is judging in. I know in my case, by only having to pick/judge the best car in a few classes, that I slow down alot and really look hard at each car in the class. I have surprised myself this year by picking cars that I have not really paid attention to at past shows. As examples of this type of participant pick/judging, I would point out Spring Green and the Mayville Show.
MMRJR wrote:
Quote:I know in my case, by only having to pick/judge the best car in a few classes, that I slow down alot and really look hard at each car in the class. I have surprised myself this year by picking cars that I have not really paid attention to at past shows. As examples of this type of participant pick/judging, I would point out Spring Green and the Mayville Show.I helped judge the Pardeeville (?s) show this year. When you really stop and go over each car it is amazing how many cars I thought were nice are really flawed.
Participant judging is a joke. I proved this last year as a test during one show. Just go to a small town show, and on your window card put your home town as the one your in. I told all my friends at the show I was doing this, and now they believe me.. :dry:
I have thought a lot about this before posting my .02:
I am a firm believer that participant judging never really works. Its a popularity contest 95% of the time. I am guilty of voting for my friends and aquaintance’s cars also. I have seen a lot of good vehicles get picked over because of Good Ol’ Boy Syndrome, who that person is in the car community, etc.
I feel that participant judging is ok for a 1st year show. A first year show has a lot of bugs to work out, and if you’re on a limited budget having the participants vote does take away the stress of having to assemble a judging team.
Even with judges though, some shows still play favorites. When having judges, you have to have knowledgeable people judging these cars!!! I have been to quite a few shows (Albany and Reedsburg come to mind) where IMO the judges didn’t have a clue what they were looking at. I have been very vocal on this subject all summer both here on WCC and in person, and its one of many reasons ddhemi and I have earned the nickname “Car show’s most hated”
I would have to agree with Lordairgtar and MMRJR on both of there points. Lordairgtar talks of the miscellanious participant ballots – I have been to shows where they have done this and the format seems to work. Chances are you will have to judge a class where you know an owner of a vehicle, and if you feel they have the nicest car in the class, vote for it. Participant voting is nothing more the awarding the best liked cars in class per personal preference. Yes, its obvious when certain cars win that they’re fan club voted for them. Marshall, the idea of an independant party to judge the cars is also smart. But, to judge a show around here, you would have to find someone knowledgeable that isn’t from the area to keep it as fair as possible. I’m not saying any local boys would play favorites, but if a judge had no ties to the area I feel it would be more fair. However, unless you know someone, this could be a lot of hoops to jump thru to make happen.
IMHO, I would say that if your having a participant judged show, split the ballots up in an attempt of fairness, though personal preference will previal. In a judged show, as long as you have people that know what there looking at, can put any personal preference or conflicts aside, and will be fair, you will have a good car show.
I would have to agree…participant ballot should never allow you to judge cars within your own class, period. This has me concerned at the Audoban Days show in Mayville this year where you only get to judge cars in your class…to me that is the worst idea possible.
Participant judging usually sucks…there isnt much way around that. The only good way that I’ve seen is basically what lordairguitar stated: Split the ballots up where you only judge a couple of classes, and never your own.
moparkid25 wrote:
Quote:I have thought a lot about this before posting my .02:I am a firm believer that participant judging never really works. Its a popularity contest 95% of the time. I am guilty of voting for my friends and aquaintance’s cars also. I have seen a lot of good vehicles get picked over because of Good Ol’ Boy Syndrome, who that person is in the car community, etc.
I feel that participant judging is ok for a 1st year show. A first year show has a lot of bugs to work out, and if you’re on a limited budget having the participants vote does take away the stress of having to assemble a judging team.
Even with judges though, some shows still play favorites. When having judges, you have to have knowledgeable people judging these cars!!! I have been to quite a few shows (Albany and Reedsburg come to mind) where IMO the judges didn’t have a clue what they were looking at. I have been very vocal on this subject all summer both here on WCC and in person, and its one of many reasons ddhemi and I have earned the nickname “Car show’s most hated”
I would have to agree with Lordairgtar and MMRJR on both of there points. Lordairgtar talks of the miscellanious participant ballots – I have been to shows where they have done this and the format seems to work. Chances are you will have to judge a class where you know an owner of a vehicle, and if you feel they have the nicest car in the class, vote for it. Participant voting is nothing more the awarding the best liked cars in class per personal preference. Yes, its obvious when certain cars win that they’re fan club voted for them. Marshall, the idea of an independant party to judge the cars is also smart. But, to judge a show around here, you would have to find someone knowledgeable that isn’t from the area to keep it as fair as possible. I’m not saying any local boys would play favorites, but if a judge had no ties to the area I feel it would be more fair. However, unless you know someone, this could be a lot of hoops to jump thru to make happen.
IMHO, I would say that if your having a participant judged show, split the ballots up in an attempt of fairness, though personal preference will previal. In a judged show, as long as you have people that know what there looking at, can put any personal preference or conflicts aside, and will be fair, you will have a good car show.
Well said. I have never voted for your cars…..
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