Wis. Assy. Public Hearing on AB-592 Dec. 3, 2009

[Anonymous]

Short notice, sorry.

This Thursday, Dec. 3, 2009 at 10:15am, there will be a hearing at the State Capitol for AB-592, a proposal to restrict historic military vehicles. Now, you might not care too much about these old green trucks, but what happens at this hearing will likely effect someone you know, and maybe you and your car. Here’s what I know.

Sen. Ted Zigmunt (R), has introduced this bill to “clarify” the registration of historic military vehicles (HMVs). Here’s a link: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2009/data/AB-592.pdf Here’s the notice: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2009/data/AB592hst.html

In short, this bill will limit any ex-military vehicles to “display and parade purposes”. It also allows DOT to refuse registration if the vehicle is not in the proper “design and markings”. Can you imagine if a DOT employee refused to register your vehicle because the paint was glossy instead of matte, or the star was the wrong size, or it had desert camouflage instead of jungle stripes?? Or what if you changed the box of your truck? Many trucks are delivered without any box, and are routinely altered to suit new purposes. Is a topper illegal? Do you trust the DOT to know the difference?

Here’s why this is important to you:

Included in this bill is a section about antique imported vehicles (ex-military in this case), and these are going to be restricted to display-only operation. Currently, these vehicles, and allantique imported vehicles are allowed to be registered as the owner chooses. Think 1970 Leland Mini, or foreign-market Jag..

Once DOT gets some of these cars pulled off the road, you can bet your britches that they’ll be going after more. You know what all of these vehicles have in common? None of them have a little sticker from NHTSA that says the vehicle met FMVSS safety standards. The same is true for every pre-1968 vehicle too!

You’d like to believe that it won’t happen, but it already happened to me in Sept. 2007 when DOT rescinded my title and license on my Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer. I filed an appeal, and won, which made DOT reregister us. But they’re refusing to register them again now. (I can give you names and numbers of guys effected.) Here’s a link to the decision where the judge ruled that my truck had to be reregistered: http://dha.state.wi.us/home/Decisions/DOT/2008/tr080027.pdf

Please attend this hearing. Urge them not to accept the restriction on the use of any vehicles, so long as the vehicle can meet current equipment requirements, which are detailed in the Wisconsin Administrative Code, Chapter 305: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/trans/trans305.pdf

Urge them not to accept requirements on “design and markings”, it’s too ambiguous.

If you can’t attend, call your senator and your assembly representative. Get involved. Here’s a link to locate your elected officials:http://www.legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asp/waml/waml.aspx

Paul

Topic

[moparkid25]

Thanks for the info, neighbor!!

I don’t think I will be able to attend as work is in the way and its too short of notice for me to get off.

Please go and defend the rights of the residents of WI on my behalf. I will be contacting my Senators, congressmen, and anyone else that will listen to me. This is an outrage to the collector vehicle community, and makes me sick to my stomach that the state wants to decide what is “safe” for us.

I will stop by Thursday after work to find out the outcome of the meeting!

Zac

[GTO Man]

Government wants to control everything. I wouldn’t trust DOT to make unbiased or knowledgeable decisions about any vehicle.

[Eclipse_Tuner]

+1…sounds like I need to make a few phone calls too.

[Anonymous]

More restrictions on our Rights…..

I’ll have to see if I can swing in for this one.

Amazing but not surprising it went this far. Our stand at the DMV building back in the summer should have been voice enough for the Assholes who wrote this up but nooooooo. Bureaucrats only want to do one thing, make more laws to justify their existence.

[Anonymous]

Illwillie,

You’d think that wouldn’t you. But unfortunately, that hearing was only before the DOT, and they’re not listening to anybody.

DOT has an agenda, to apply federal regulations, beyond their written scope, on a state level. They are the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, not the STATE Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. This is a Federal requirement, under Federal jurisdiction.

New vehicles are prohibited from being manufactured, sold, or imported into the US, unless they meed FMVSS. This is something the U.S. DOT/NHTSA handles already.

As far as USED (and new) vehicles go, they must meet Wisconsin equipment requirements as a condition of operation, as detailed in our Wis. Admin. Code Ch. 305.

There is no existing state statute which requires a label certifying FMVSS-compliance in order to register your vehicle.

And, in my opinion, you probably shouldn’t blame the bureaucrats: They’re just trying to write up a law in response to DOT’s cry of “wolf”. DOT’s been in their ear since at least Feb. 2008 trying to get legislation passed to authorize what DOT’s been already doing since 2007!!: outlaw vehicles without FMVSS labels, beginning with antique ex-military vehicles.

That’s the problem: DOT acting without the statute to back ’em up. Now they’re just covering their ass.

Tell your lawmakers that you’re angry that DOT acted without statutory authority in this instance.

Tell them that you’re tired of DOT spending money foolishly, like when they overpaid consultants, and then refused to even appear to answer to the Assembly:
http://dailyreporter.com/blog/2009/09/30/lawmakers-criticize-wisdot-over-consultants-509-pm-93009/

Tell them that you’re upset that the FBI has to investigate the DOT attorney when he tried to strongarm Illinois for some crook: http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29270049.html

This DOT administration is rotten to the core. It’s time to clean house.

[Anonymous]

This topic and the subsequent postings remind me of a new mandated fee hike that DOT started collecting last year.

The fee hike had something to with a so called federal requirement to conduct an identity check, but DOT tacked on (I believe) a $5 fee for each drivers license renewal without actually doing any sort of an independent identity check. I can’t remember whether this money stayed in Wisconsin with the DOT or went back to the federal government.

Does anyone else remember this?

[moparkid25]

Its bullshit – plain and simple.

The DOT has become there own Nazi regime, and they need to brought back down to size :angry:

[Anonymous]

Trans123 is BACK in a different form:

This just in from the State Capitol: “Rep. Zigmunt has turned over the keys on this issue to the DOT and they have definitely slipped some, almost all, of Trans123 into the bill.”

Here’s the thread about Trans123:
http://www.wiscollectorcar.com/forum/33-madison-discussions/38507-do-you-know-about-this.html

So far, they have received lots of support for this bill. ???

I sure hope that in 2 years or so, if all of our vehicles are off the road, I’m not left sitting here saying, “I told you so.”.

Please come and demand that this bill gets amended or rejected.

Paul

[moparkid25]

Paul-Underwood wrote:

Quote:

Trans123 is BACK in a different form:

This just in from the State Capitol: “Rep. Zigmunt has turned over the keys on this issue to the DOT and they have definitely slipped some, almost all, of Trans123 into the bill.”

Here’s the thread about Trans123:
http://www.wiscollectorcar.com/forum/33-madison-discussions/38507-do-you-know-about-this.html

So far, they have received lots of support for this bill. ???

I sure hope that in 2 years or so, if all of our vehicles are off the road, I’m not left sitting here saying, “I told you so.”.

Please come and demand that this bill gets amended or rejected.

Paul

I called Sondy Robert’s office yesterday. I got a live person who I voiced my concerns too regarding this matter. Today, I got an email from Tom McCarthy, a somebody in Roberts office. He still had my email address from last july when I lit em up about Trans 123. He asked for my phone number, and I gave it to him. It wasn’t 5 minutes and my cell was ringing. I have to say, I was quite impressed. I spoke with him for a short time and reiterated my concerns. He told me that Ms. Roberts is well aware of the situation going on with the DOT, and that she along with Senator Erpenbach are against what the DOT is trying to pass. I explained to him that the DOT has no right to go over the laws put inplace by the federal government. By regulating what can and cant be driven on the highways (even if the vehicle meets all the proper safety equipment) is no only insane, but the revenue lost by those in the fabrication, restoration, and other areas of the automotive industry will be astronomical. Tom sounded like he had his head on his shoulders, and admitted that the bill is way too vague. He also agreed with me that a vehicle should not be subject to registration based on what some goon at DOT thinks.

I am home sick, and won’t be able to attend tomorrows hearing. I ask that everyone who can make it stand alongside Mr. Underwood and fight for our rights as vehicle owners!!!

[Anonymous]

Moparkid,

Good to talk to you this eve. FYI, Tom is the guy who I’ve been working with from Rep. Pope-Roberts’ office. He’s sharp and he’s honest.

I know most of the guys on this forum probably aren’t ‘army truck’ guys, even though we are certainly fellow vehicle collectors. It’s important that we stay united because that way we are a politically viable group. If we get too small, the DOT can run right over us. So we kind of have to just stick together. But there are some similar issues here.

The biggest issue/s that might effect collector cars are:

1) Any bill that specifies the markings (or color) of your car are unreasonable. To then give an DMV employee the power to refuse your registration because of it is insane.

2) To let DOT force some group of cars to use “collector” plates, and be restricted in how you use the vehicle is unacceptable. Any vehicle should be able to be licensed as a normal vehicle, whether car or truck. If the owner wants to get collector plates to save registration fees, and he’s willing to accept the operating restrictions like payload less than 500# and no operation in January, that’s the owner’s choice.

3) Documents needed for registration must be detailed. Giving DMV the authority to demand documents relating to previous owners is unworkable. The particular documents needed for each type of application are easily specified.

4) Any vehicle which U.S.DOT/NHTSA considers a “Motor Vehicle”, and which also satisfies the Wisconsin Equipment Requirements listed in Ch. 347. Wis. Stats. and Ch. 305 Wis. Admin. Code must be able to be titled and registered.

These are probably the big parts of this bill that would likely find their way into civilian-model vehicle legislation soon. Once they’re established, other noncomplying vehicles would be next.

How’d you like it if your imported ’70 Leland Mini (imported), or your ’57 T-Bird (pre-’68), or that 76 Camaro you repainted red (not original markings) couldn’t be registered until you dug up the original build sheet from the manufacturer. Sound insane??

Well how about if your ’74 imported ex-military truck couldn’t get registered because it was yellow? Thats actually what Zigmunt’s bill AB-592 will do.

[Garibaldi]

Any updates on this?

[Author]

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