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What should be the minimum done when judging a show? How long should be taken on each car? What should be looked at closely, what shouldn’t be judged as hard?
Differences between judging stock vs modified?
This is an area where there seems to be much disagreement, depending on the show. Or is it because there are not enough qualified judges around?
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Two man teams work best. That way it should only take both 5 mins to judge a car.
In my opinion how clean a car is should be looked at first. You car usually tell how nice a car is by its engine bay and how detailed it is.
Body work and paint next.
Seats, carpet, dash, glass
Underside
Trunk
When i judge a car the very first thing i look at is the engine bay. Here is where you seperate the regulars from the freaks. I always look at each car in the class and revert back to ones that i have already judged. Dust, grease, water spots, wax in the cracks, all the small stuff. Look to see if someone has taken the time to clean off all the grass and dirt from the tires. Look for that extra mile someone has gone to show their car. I like judging the “freaks” cars at shows. When two cars are so close i always look back at the small stuff like how clean the car is.
When judging stock cars, its just that. Look to see if they are running the stock battery, stock tires, factory glass and so on. Cars that are in stock classes get knocked for having aftermarket wheels, air cleaners, valve covers ect. Stock means stock
When judging modified your looking to see who has more mods on their car. You really cant judge the internals of a car so if something looks stock but has a big cam and exhaust it goes in stock. Crate motors, like 426 Hemis that are in stock cars should also go in stock. Same thing as a replacement motor. Modified cars should have aftermarket wheels and “bolt-on” performance parts. If two cars are close in modified, first i look to see whos car is cleaner, then who has more mods. Other judges might reverse those two but in my world, its who has the cleaner car.
ddhemi wrote:
Quote:Two man teams work best. That way it should only take both 5 mins to judge a car.In my opinion how clean a car is should be looked at first. You car usually tell how nice a car is by its engine bay and how detailed it is.
Body work and paint next.
Seats, carpet, dash, glass
Underside
Trunk
When i judge a car the very first thing i look at is the engine bay. Here is where you seperate the regulars from the freaks. I always look at each car in the class and revert back to ones that i have already judged. Dust, grease, water spots, wax in the cracks, all the small stuff. Look to see if someone has taken the time to clean off all the grass and dirt from the tires. Look for that extra mile someone has gone to show their car. I like judging the “freaks” cars at shows. When two cars are so close i always look back at the small stuff like how clean the car is.
When judging stock cars, its just that. Look to see if they are running the stock battery, stock tires, factory glass and so on. Cars that are in stock classes get knocked for having aftermarket wheels, air cleaners, valve covers ect. Stock means stock
When judging modified your looking to see who has more mods on their car. You really cant judge the internals of a car so if something looks stock but has a big cam and exhaust it goes in stock. Crate motors, like 426 Hemis that are in stock cars should also go in stock. Same thing as a replacement motor. Modified cars should have aftermarket wheels and “bolt-on” performance parts. If two cars are close in modified, first i look to see whos car is cleaner, then who has more mods. Other judges might reverse those two but in my world, its who has the cleaner car.
+1. Great minds think alike :whistle:
I dont understand what is so hard about it. I can walk through a class at a show and tell 1st 2nd and 3rd within 10 mins. Im thinkin local boy fever and brand favorites are coming into play alot. Then there is judges that dont have a freaking clue!
Parking cars in classes is a must, im sorry. It is easier for the judges to compare.
ddhemi wrote:
Quote:I dont understand what is so hard about it. I can walk through a class at a show and tell 1st 2nd and 3rd within 10 mins. Im thinkin local boy fever and brand favorites are coming into play alot. Then there is judges that dont have a freaking clue!Parking cars in classes is a must, im sorry. It is easier for the judges to compare.
So you are saying if your a judge you should not pick your friends 1970 watchamacallit with the flextube exhaust, and the dryer flextube snorkel air intake as best of show? :woohoo:
I knew there was a reason I was not a judge..
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
In terms of modified judging, I also think its important to take into consideration how much of the mods are “off the shelf” vs. custom made. I also think that consideration should be paid to who did the modifying…owner vs. shop.
ddhemi I like your outline of a standard. How do you think new cars (e.g. new muscle) should be judged against each other (in their own class of course)?
If a muscle car class is set up i think that you need to take in how much of a “muscle car” that car really is. In my opinion new muscle is from mid to late 90s to 2010. Firehawks and WS6 cars are muscle where formulas are not. High performance models only. Not the six banger ones or low output v-8s. Vettes are not modern muscle in my opinion but the ZO6 and ZR1 are. Newer mustangs with factory blowers(i.e. Roush, Saleen, Servini), GT500s, Cobra Mustangs, i would consider muscle. All new V-8 Challengers r/t and SRT, All 4 door hemi cars(i.e. chargers, 300c, magnum)R/T and SRT. Pontiac GTOs, Camaro SS, and maybe the Camaro Z28s. Dodge Vipers gts r/t 10 and srt 10. Now the new C6 Vette wih both the LS2 and LS3 could be considered new muscle due to the horsepower ratings and performance numbers, but maybe better suited for a Corvette class. Oh ya and these cars have to be American V-8 or larger powered! No imports. Its not about your Horsepower to liter ratio. Its about rear wheel drive, kick in the ass, V-8, V-10 straight line performance. Best bang for your buck. These cars are carring on the tradition of what their firebreathing ancestors did back in the 60s and 70s. Proving America is still ontop in the performance category and this class reflects that.
Just plain newer factory cars would catch all the basic moddern day sports cars like your average 2002 Mustang GT. Also would be 4 door and 2 door performance cars with 6 bangers like Impala SS or Monte Carlo SS, Cobalt SS etc.
What i would look at when judging is if something just came off the showroom floor. I will be far more picky about that car then a car that is 10 years old and spotless that gets driven alot. If someone wants to bring their 2010 or 09 models to the show by all means do so! I love looking at them. But dont expect to win with something detailed from the dealership. :angry:
Also, absolutly no car newer then 20 years old gets best of show unless it is HEAVILY MODIFIED! Or a Firemens pick or something of that matter. 2009 Dodge Challengers do not win best of show stock. Thats a no brainer. :silly:
I think the Corvettes should be classed together, with year breakpoints like C1, C2, C3, C4, C5, and C6. C6 would also include the Z06 and the Zr1. With Corvettes, group them by genre. This also eliminates a fully restored Stingray having to compete against a new Z06 with 2500 miles on it.
With Vipers, they should be included in two-seat sports cars or Modern Muscle class. It would be hard to give Vipers there own class at an all-makes show as they’ve not been in production for 56 years like the Corvette.
Newer imports like the 350z, Skyline, Tiberoun (if you’ve ever seen one at a show…I haven’t) should go in import-They are not a modern muscle car. Muscle Car should be defined as built by American Manufacturers.
Cars like the SVT Focus and the Cobalt SS aren’t Imports, but more “Tuners”. If they have been modified, they should go in Modified class. If they are stock, they go in Stock Class for there years. Same should go for your Impala SS (Both supercharged 6 and V8), Ford SHO’s, and your new 6 cyl Camaro’s and Challengers along with other cars which we don’t really see many of around here.
I too agree with DDhemi, there should be rules for a Best of Show vehicle. In no way, shape, or form -unless heavily modified- should a late model car win this award.
Corvette breakdown could go C 1-3 AND C 4-6. Two diff classes.
How would you judge a brand new 09 muscle car off the showroom floor and “detailed” at the shop that lives in a garage, against a brand new 09 muscle car that is a daily driver and detailed by the owner for many hours prior to a show? I ask this because it takes me a lot more time to detail my 09 daily driver and enter it into a modern muscle class than it takes me to pull my 85 detailed car sitting under the cover and always in the garage except for a show……now the 85 gets her fair share of attention at the beginning of spring, but just not as much right before a show cause she just sits in the garage and waits for the next show :laugh:
TBEAR wrote:
Quote:How would you judge a brand new 09 muscle car off the showroom floor and “detailed” at the shop that lives in a garage, against a brand new 09 muscle car that is a daily driver and detailed by the owner for many hours prior to a show? I ask this because it takes me a lot more time to detail my 09 daily driver and enter it into a modern muscle class than it takes me to pull my 85 detailed car sitting under the cover and always in the garage except for a show……now the 85 gets her fair share of attention at the beginning of spring, but just not as much right before a show cause she just sits in the garage and waits for the next show :laugh:That 85 whatever has seen 24 years of use. Your 09 has seen maybe months of use. Diff is your 85 is a “show” car and your 09 is a daily driver. Cant really compare those two. Thats why they are not in the same classes.
If you choose to bring an 09 model car to a show it better be ready to compete against another 09 model if its daily driven or not. New cars are new cars. They shouldnt get any slack cut to them daily driven or 2 miles on them. Again its your choice to bring it knowing that maybe others dont daily drive their 09 Challenger. Fact is a car that is a model of the same year that we are currently in better be clean daily driven or not. You just need to work harder then the guy that doesnt daily drive his. I think thats all part of the comp.Other things i have noticed in Muscle car classes when judging are small block cars. These are not muscle cars. No small block performance car from 64-74 is considered muscle car. Some would even say that the muscle car era ended in 71. I would agree. Mustangs with 351s are not a muscle car. Nor with 302s or 289s. Muscle cars were high performance big block cars only. 428 Mustangs were muscle cars along with 429 Boss cars. Cudas and Challengers with 340s and 340 six pac or six barrels were pony cars. Hemis, 383s, 440s, 426 wedge powered mopars are muscle cars. Same applies for Camaros. AMC has the same for the AMX and Javalin.
Problem being that when you start grouping these cars together the public gets a misguided history of what really took place back in the 60s and early 70s. You are not doing the cars any justice. Kind of like putting an Opel in with a Corvette class.
I think that some of these shows could open up a pony car class as well. I heard the new Mt Horeb show for next year may try this out. Takes some stress off of the Mustang classes and Camaro classes.
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