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… of hearing Scott Walker getting bashed?
I know there are members here who are employed by the State, and thats fine. I’m not picking on you. But I need to express my two wooden nickles on this whole thing.
I see no issue in an employee having to contribute to there own health plan and retirement. Those of us in the private sector have had to do this, and given the current ecomonic climate, we need to “cut some fat” with our budgets. The Unions claim to be for the people, but in reality they are only for the people they are protecting. I’ve seen firsthand what the UAW gets away with on the Auto Assembly Lines, and its crap.
The education system is broken. Teachers are being paid way too much and kids are learning so little. The school system is too light on kids, as they were when I was in school 12-15 years ago. The education system doesn’t teach any hands on experience, its all sit in front of the computer and google you answers. As was the case in my day, some teachers don’t want to teach you history of the world, they want to teach there opinion.
If I were asked on how to change things, this is what I would do:
-All state jobs would be eliminated. Re-hire those employees from the private sector, offer them a fair wage with a benefits package and a retirement option, such as an IRA or a 401k. Union interference would be extinct. If you are unhappy with your position, you are free to go.
-Educators would have to earn there pay, i.e. have a wage scale based on performance and review. If you’re a good educator, you will be paid well. If you are not, there’s always McDonalds.
That’s the take of a guy who’s been in the private sector and never had a Union protected position.
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Here is my take. A guy that has been in both the public and private sector.
Since 2004 I’ve been in the public sector. My wages have increased by 1.5% and I have had to pay an extra 9% into my health insurance during this 7 year period.
My move from private to public I saw a 30% decrease in salary for the same job title, same job duties (my choice, because I thought I could bring my private knowledge and make a difference, silly me).
Do I think public sector needs to pay more into insurance and retirement? Yes. Does this need to be done all at once? No. It should be set up over a 5-7 year time frame to give people the chance to adsorb some of the out of pocket expenses they will take (assuming we ever receive a pay increase). Under the current proposal I will see ~375 fewer dollars in my pocket every month.
Eliminating all jobs and sending them to the private sector will never work. All you will see is a smaller workforce with a bunch of fat cats pulling in multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses (but this will trickle down right?).
Unions have brought all of us, 40 hr work weeks, worker protections and safe work conditions and paid vacation, paid leave, sick leave and so on. Get ride of them and wait 15 years and you will have no rights …
I think Canada is looking like a nice place to live …
I agree with Ryan, its because of unions that we have many of our benefits, and not just people within unions, all workers. The owners of most companies don’t give a sh&t about the people they employ.
As far as Walker is concerned I am embarrassed to say I am from Wisconsin. With all of the intelligent people in this state, how did he ever get into office. Case in point is his wanting to have Illinois companies move here because of the recent tax increases in Illinois. He should of checked and determined even with their tax increase the taxes here in Wisconsin are still higher than Illinois.
moparkid25 wrote:
Quote:The education system is broken. Teachers are being paid way too much and kids are learning so little. The school system is too light on kids, as they were when I was in school 12-15 years ago. The education system doesn’t teach any hands on experience, its all sit in front of the computer and google you answers. As was the case in my day, some teachers don’t want to teach you history of the world, they want to teach there opinion.-Educators would have to earn there pay, i.e. have a wage scale based on performance and review. If you’re a good educator, you will be paid well. If you are not, there’s always McDonalds.
I missed this part. Part of the reason a lot of the hands on school activities and classes have gone away is because of budget cuts (which includes cutting staff). With the purposed bill you will see more cuts to classes and bigger class sizes. A normal class size is 25-30. Now what if it is 80-100? Is that fair to teacher? Is it fair to the students?
How can you pay on performance if Little Johnny never does his math assignment? Most schools now offer parents the ability to see what the student is required to do for week (via the internet). But what if Little Johnny’s parents enjoy spending their nights at the bar? Is this the teachers fault? Or will Little Johnny be the one at McDonald saying, “When is McDonald’s going to trickle some of their cash down to me?” as he stands next to his teacher who is also working the night shift…
Here is a nice message from one of those “over paid” teachers:
Quote:I am a third grade teacher.I get to work each day by 7am, I leave by 4pm to get home to my daughter.
I get yelled at by my husband for working on school work late into the evening hours just about every night.
I do not make crafts with my children every day; we collect recycling, run a classroom economy, compost our leftover food scraps and think about issues happening in the world and how to make it better.
I am not a babysitter.
My students make progress every year, despite where they begin at the beginning of the year.
I console my students who are upset on a daily basis. Students dealing with abuse, violence and instability at home included.
I became a teacher because I love the students in my classroom as if they were my own children.
I spent hundreds (yes hundreds) of dollars per year on my students because my classroom budget is a measly $200.
My students know how to embed objects into a Wiki. They know how to use Email, they build and create projects online.
My class sizes have gone up and I welcome the extra students with open arms.
I did not become a teacher for the salary.
I did not become a teacher for the benefits.
If I have to get rid of my benefits I will still be a teacher.
I own a small house.
My take home pay is about $26,000 per year.
We have student loans that amount to $800 per month.
I have to pay for child care.
I have to pay for my mortgage.
I pay taxes like everyone else.
I understand sacrifice.
I teach summer school.
I am paid for the number of days I work during the school year.
I am lucky to have a job.
I am told my job is easy.
I am informed that I am not a “real” employee.
I learned that the Post Crescent has a database to look up teacher salaries (but not other public employees), perhaps so that I can be told I make too much money.
I already pay toward my healthcare.
I work on district committees because I believe that education can be improved upon.
I use Twitter, Facebook and other social media to stay current in my profession.
I am working toward a Master’s degree to learn more about my field.
I read comments that degrade my profession on a daily basis.
I listen to comments that degrade my profession often.
I have to defend my profession often.
I have to justify my “time off” constantly to those who think I am paid for it.
I attend extra-curricular events to get to know my students outside of the classroom.
I am not unique. There are millions of teachers like me around the world. I have met them and work with them and use and steal their ideas. We work together, we are trying our best to fix problems.
I am not whining. I love my job. But to those who degrade and look down on me and my profession, I would like you to comment and tell us what else I have to do to earn your respect.
No matter what… he’s the Governor ~ you may not like him, or elected him, but right now he’s the one calling the shots.
Amigo2k wrote:
Quote:Here is a nice message from one of those “over paid” teachers:Quote:I am a third grade teacher.I get to work each day by 7am, I leave by 4pm to get home to my daughter.
I get yelled at by my husband for working on school work late into the evening hours just about every night.
I do not make crafts with my children every day; we collect recycling, run a classroom economy, compost our leftover food scraps and think about issues happening in the world and how to make it better.
I am not a babysitter.
My students make progress every year, despite where they begin at the beginning of the year.
I console my students who are upset on a daily basis. Students dealing with abuse, violence and instability at home included.
I became a teacher because I love the students in my classroom as if they were my own children.
I spent hundreds (yes hundreds) of dollars per year on my students because my classroom budget is a measly $200.
My students know how to embed objects into a Wiki. They know how to use Email, they build and create projects online.
My class sizes have gone up and I welcome the extra students with open arms.
I did not become a teacher for the salary.
I did not become a teacher for the benefits.
If I have to get rid of my benefits I will still be a teacher.
I own a small house.
My take home pay is about $26,000 per year.
We have student loans that amount to $800 per month.
I have to pay for child care.
I have to pay for my mortgage.
I pay taxes like everyone else.
I understand sacrifice.
I teach summer school.
I am paid for the number of days I work during the school year.
I am lucky to have a job.
I am told my job is easy.
I am informed that I am not a “real” employee.
I learned that the Post Crescent has a database to look up teacher salaries (but not other public employees), perhaps so that I can be told I make too much money.
I already pay toward my healthcare.
I work on district committees because I believe that education can be improved upon.
I use Twitter, Facebook and other social media to stay current in my profession.
I am working toward a Master’s degree to learn more about my field.
I read comments that degrade my profession on a daily basis.
I listen to comments that degrade my profession often.
I have to defend my profession often.
I have to justify my “time off” constantly to those who think I am paid for it.
I attend extra-curricular events to get to know my students outside of the classroom.
I am not unique. There are millions of teachers like me around the world. I have met them and work with them and use and steal their ideas. We work together, we are trying our best to fix problems.
I am not whining. I love my job. But to those who degrade and look down on me and my profession, I would like you to comment and tell us what else I have to do to earn your respect.
That’s fine and dandy, but she’s also married and I would presume lives in a dual income household. I’m not telling her to spend her own money on classroom needs, extra cirricular activities, nor is her student loan payment my problem. That is there personal choice. Why am I to feel sorry, no one paid for my education except me. I applied for grants and scholarships to assist my costs of education. I don’t think anyone thinks a teachers job is easy, but that doesn’t mean they should be paid more. There are people digging ditches for a lot less than 26k a year. How are these schools so low on money when the property taxes keep going up??
Education is the one thing that can never be taken from a person. However, one needs to have a good education to succeed, and you can’t get a good education without a good teacher. My aunt and uncle are both teachers, both liberal biased, and think that they are owed something for there services. Why are they owed something? Because they did there job? I do my job every day and don’t expect to be owed anything. It is my job and its what I am paid to do. I’m far from rich, but I work for what I have and am proud of what I have accomplished. I have another uncle who is a math teacher, he also bartends on the weekends. Not because he doesn’t make enough teaching, because he has to support his two boys and his soon-to-be ex-wifes failing business. He spends none of his own money in the classroom.
I’m sick of everyone playing the victim. What happened to the country where people worked hard, saved, and had something to show for it? IMO, the Teachers Union and the State employees were protected by Jim Doyle for way too long and became comfortable in there surroundings. I also have an uncle who works for the State, in the Revenue Dept. He’s a big liberal crybaby also, and has never really had to do anything but be a bean counter his whole life. He could never do anything else. My Grandfather also worked for the State in the Revenue office, and was a supervisor by the end of his tenure. He never relied on the State to take care of him, he took care of his family by himself. Grandma also worked, and the two made investments when they could… Which worked out well for them.
I always thought a State job would be a good business to get into, but the county depts are a good example of why not to work in the public sector. Progressive Kathleen Falk started the pay cuts to balance the budget, yet no one bitches about her….
Quote:IMO, the Teachers Union and the State employees were protected by Jim Doyle for way too long and became comfortable in there surroundings.I’ll keep this in mind when I’m taking my next 3 unpaid furlough days thanks for Gov Doyle …
Quote:I’m sick of everyone playing the victim. What happened to the country where people worked hard, saved, and had something to show for it? IMO, the Teachers Union and the State employees were protected by Jim Doyle for way too long and became comfortable in there surroundings. I also have an uncle who works for the State, in the Revenue Dept. He’s a big liberal crybaby also, and has never really had to do anything but be a bean counter his whole life. He could never do anything else. My Grandfather also worked for the State in the Revenue office, and was a supervisor by the end of his tenure. He never relied on the State to take care of him, he took care of his family by himself. Grandma also worked, and the two made investments when they could… Which worked out well for them.Who is playing the victim? They are about to get screwed by their employer. Have you ever done your Uncle’s job? If you haven’t how can you say he never really had to do anything. If your Grandfather worked for the state that is where his income came from, he was taken care of by the state.
Quote:What happened to the country where people worked hard, saved, and had something to show for it?what happened is that big business runs this country now, and they don’t give a fu&* about you or anyone else.
I would like to steer the course of this conversation in a different direction.
On top of everything else that we are discussing here, I am personally angered that Gov Walker warned state workers/union members that he had notified/alerted the Wisconsin National Guard and would call them up, if necessary. In my mind, this is a threat to use military force against citizens/employees of Wisconsin. What happened to our constitutional rights to free speech and freedom to assemble?
Appears to me the only people that like King Walker are the people that couldn’t get a state job, So thats the state workers fault for passing the test..I guess 33 years ago I wanted a secure future and $4.85 an hour.. or I could have kept working at the gas station.. We have given up years of salary increases to keep our health insurance and pension. So if Walker wants to give us all backpay for all those years I’ll be glad to pay for my health insurance. :angry:
We all know it starts this way but by the end it is a lot less than what is first proposed. I think if they would cut into the fraud of welfare nationally we’d save billions. The money that is paid out in this lucrative welfare business is unbelieveable. I not is not the life style anyone would pick but it’s ez money when this all you’ve ever been around. Trust me, it’s rampent. I have seen this first hand and the one reason it goes unreported is the stupid race card. The most overused and abused weapon is crying race.
MMRJR wrote:
Quote:I would like to steer the course of this conversation in a different direction.On top of everything else that we are discussing here, I am personally angered that Gov Walker warned state workers/union members that he had notified/alerted the Wisconsin National Guard and would call them up, if necessary. In my mind, this is a threat to use military force against citizens/employees of Wisconsin. What happened to our constitutional rights to free speech and freedom to assemble?
I agree! This would be like my boss sitting me down and telling me to “do this” or else, as she pulls out a 9mm and flashes it at me.
I wounder what would happen if I did this with my clients … “I’m sorry, we are going to double our rates, so pay up, or say hello to my little friend”
With all due respect, I was required to do much more than simply pass a test in order to qualify for the the state job that I will be leaving within a couple of weeks.
I was required to complete a security questionairre that went back to my date of birth, and the information I provided was verified and confirmed, entry by entry, by the State of Wisconsin, Department of Criminal Investigation. I had aunts, uncles, nephews, neices, neighbors, and friends that were contacted and interviewed, to verify the information that I provided was accurate. I held a Top Secret security clearance when I was employed by the DOD, but that was nothing compared to the background security investigation conducted by DCI.
My educational attainments, my professional credentials, my board certifications, my work experience, my employment history, all of this was confirmed before a job offer was made to me.
I passed the test, and I was offered a position, and I accepted the offer, and I have no regrets. I am leaving state service very soon, but rest assured, that most other state workers go through this same process are required to do much more than simply pass a test.
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